Ammon Transcript - Hamilton Morris - Did Jesus Use Children as Drugs?

Censored:

Uncensored:  https://www.patreon.com/posts/pod-98-dr-d-c-on-99486806  ($5 a month gives access)

Links

• Tinkle Tweaking @ Vice
• Dissertation with the ingredients in the Black Death/Theriac
• Apostle Paul is Immune to Venom
• Sibylline Books
• Rediscovery of Silphium
• Dr. Hillman's Youtube Channel
• Pliny the Elder
• Galen
• Theriac
• His website:[ https://www.ladybabylon.com/](https://www.ladybabylon.com/)
• Tyrian Purple
• Herculaneum Scrolls

Attachments

• From Urine in India to Ampoules in Europe: The Relational Infrastructure of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin - Sandra Bärnreuther
  • From Urine in India to Ampoules in Europe.pdf (patreon) (google go search for it)
• Next Chapter in the Legend of Silphion: Preliminary Morphological, Chemical, Biological and Pharmacological Evaluations, Initial Conservation Studies, and Reassessment of the Regional Extinction Event - by Mahmut Miski
  • Plants-10-00102.pdf (patreon)  (mdpi.com)
• The Chemical Muse - 2008, 2014 Thomas Dunne Books
  • D. C. A. Hillman - The chemical muse_ drug use and the roots of Western civilization-Thomas Dunne Books (2008).pdf (patreon) (archive.org)
• Ecce Bufo: The Toad in Nature and in Olmec Iconography - Alison Bailey Kennedy - Current Anthropology, Vol. 23, No. 3. (Jun., 1982), pp. 273-290.
  • Kennedy_CA23.3_273_jun1982.pdf (patreon) (pugetsound.edu) (jstor login only)
• Medea and Argonautics: Medicine, pharmacy, toxicology - Ramaz Shengelia
  • MEDEA AND ARGONAUTICS MEDICINE, PHARMACY, TOXICOLOGY.pdf (patreon) (utlib.ee)

Sources

• Dioscorides
• Nicander
• Galen
• Nonas
• Pindar
• Pliney
• Old Testament
  • Henry Barclay Swete's The Old Testament in Greek According to the Septuagint, also on Biblehub.  GitHub, text file
    • Garden of Eden mentioned
• New Testament
  • Nestle’s Greek New Testament (1904) on BibleHub.  GitHub, text file
    • Mark 14:51/52 mentioned

Books

• The Chemical Muse - 2008, 2014 Thomas Dunne Books
• Original Sin - 2012 Ronin Publishing
• Hermaphrodites, Gynomorphs and Jesus - 2013 Ronin Publishing

Extra Information

Appear below inline with the text, as bullets, to give more context.  Typically defining related terms or definitions.
These are from the notetaker.

Transcript

Hamilton: okay I don't even know where to begin on this one this is possibly one of the strangest interviews I've ever done and I have spoken to a lot of weird people normally when I do interviews for this podcast I have some degree of familiarity with the subject matter and I can make an informed assessment about whether or not somebody is reliable or trustworthy so in pretty much every chemistry interview I've ever released I've felt confident that the chemistry being described was real with the possible exception of that MDA chemist interview because I think that at least exactly as he described it it's pushes the bounds of believability but if you adjust for the possibility of him exaggerating the quantities a bit which is really not that surprising people routinely exaggerate the quantities of drugs they use or make or sell or whatever it's just such an odd idea to make up a story about purifying one in antier of MDA and it having vastly Superior effects and it's especially odd because that is aligned with what I have heard from people that have used an antop pure s MDA specifically I heard from David E Nichols that it was an extraordinary experience so aspects of that I don't really know what to say about it but I think that there's got to be at least some truth there otherwise I wouldn't have even released it although I guess whatever the case may be it is a indisputably interesting story in this interview with DCA Hilman I have no idea I don't even know what to say about so much of this it's absolutely fascinating but I simply lack the personal expertise to make an informed assessment of virtually everything that he told me I'm unable to read these ancient Greek texts I am not a theologian I am not a linguist I am not a philologist i am not a expert on really any of the things that he talks about other than drugs and so basically I have to resort to one of my least favorite things which is blind uninformed credentialism DCA Hillman does have a master's degree in bacteriology and a master's degree in Classics and a PhD in Classics from the University of Wisconsin he is a credentialed academically published scholar he is a person who has the credentials and that's pretty much all I can say right and I hate being that person whenever I hear somebody say like you know oh I I heard that you know I heard that that that saunas are really really good and because I well I mean I heard it from this this this medical doctor and you know he went to Harvard so you know I I think I I do take that pretty seriously and I think man that's a a lazy way of thinking about truth because anyone that has spent any time in Academia knows very well that there are routinely people with Advanced degrees from prestigious universities who are wrong about everything from things outside of their area of expertise to things inside their area of expertise is and often when people feel the need to fall back on their credentials instead of evidence that's a sign that they don't really know what they're talking about there's a biochemist who has a great YouTube channel called debunk the funk who I want to interview on this podcast at some point he agreed to do an interview and he does a lot of conversations with covid deniers and antivaxers and tries to have have these scientific conversations with them he also does a lot of critical assessment of various public figures talking about vaccine related issues and he was critiquing this interview with Dr Drew and every time Dr Drew would say something like well you know the the vaccine really does cause a lot of very serious health problems and someone would push back you know he'd say and I know this because I'm a doctor right and it's like oh okay well never mind we trust you so I hate this sort of blind credentialism but that's that's all I've got here this is someone who has the requisite degrees to know what he's talking about and it is certainly very provocative it's not without precedent obviously people like Carl Ruck have endlessly researched similar areas this is not the first time somebody has brought up the Poss possibility of psychoactive drugs being implicated in ancient religious practices but this gets into some pretty weird territory but even in the very very weird territory like the naked fugitive story from the gospel of Mark the idea that the nude boy who is with Jesus was a sex worker has been Advanced by none other than Jeremy benam the English philosopher of panopticon Fame so some of these ideas do have historical presedent they're not completely wacky but they definitely are out there out there enough that I put on headphones to even listen to parts of this because I was concerned about what my neighbors might hear because it's it's really something else a lot of this conversation concerns an idea that I've found very interesting for almost as long as I've researched drugs which is extracting drugs or processing drugs through animals and it sounds very strange but we know that it has happened in the past and continues to happen today human coric katat tropen has been and extracted from the urine of pregnant women and used as a pharmaceutical obviously vaccines are routinely processed through living organisms there's the age-old practice of tinkle tweaking which is really more recycling used methamphetamine that has been excreted in urine it's a efficient way to recapture some excreted methamphetamine that is actually done I wrote an article about it years years ago that I'll attach here and there's the ideas about musk urine and and even an especially bizarre idea that was presented in the early 1980s which is that some Mesoamerican cultures might have even used ducks to process toads and then ate the Ducks to I guess partially detoxify and enhance the hallucinogen properties of the toad this is very much hypothetical and has not been validated in any way but there's actually a great paper written about it that I'll attach to this and then there's the shulan idea of metabolic conversion of fenal propenes to their respective amphetamines which has never been demonstrated in humans so yeah there's a lot of related material I'm not going to give it away but the things that DCA Hilman is suggesting are even stranger and more extreme almost entering a sort of qanon pizzagate territory a Biblical predecessor to pizzagate so yeah a lot of our discussion revolves around some kind of contemporary scientific analysis of these ancient practices and whether or not that is possible and we kind of go go back and forth about this one of the preparations that he describes the thec contains over 50 ingredients and each of those ingredients could vary in terms of its potency and the location where it is acquired and an infinite number of other variables I mean many of these reported ingredients are very much psychoactive whether it's aconite or opium or various snake Venoms or things like St John's wart I mean there there's no question that this could and probably did have some kind of psychoactive effect the question is just what exactly was going on and was there a true Synergy was this greater than the sum of its parts and I mean I think it would be you know I think it would certainly be interesting to study a lot of these things so DCA Hillman has not sent me some of his translations but I'll link to his YouTube and I will update this post with any documents that he sends me and thanks again to all of the patrons because you better believe that this is the type of conversation that if I tried to release this on YouTube Not only would I get demonetized it might be a channel strike this is some pretty wild stuff the Q Q&A is coming out soon I wanted to say something about the collapse of vice and this kind of psychedelic pharmaceutical thing that I discovered that's kind of shocking and it just became bloated with stuff that I wanted to talk about and answering all these questions so someone is already making fun of me for saying it's going to come out tomorrow but it will probably come out in a day or two I hope tomorrow I'm working on it in the meantime submit your question questions for the next Q&A and I hope you very much enjoy this conversation with Dr DCA Hillman I certainly enjoyed it

It's quite an honor to be able to talk with you.  I've got the dope that I think you're really going to love.  I think this thing is going to reach in and grab you, and cause you to go places that, you know, your brain is just going to chase you there.  I know it is.  I've watched you enough that I know how that is.  so I've got something really good, for you today, Hamilton I just want you to know that. okay good good but yeah so I I read a review copy of The Chemical Muse years ago and I really loved it I thought it was an amazing book and I was so excited to hear that you're working on something new and this is an area of drug history where I know relatively little I've always been a little bit hesitant about any kind of ancient use of psychoactive substances and one of the major reasons is I lack the ability to translate the primary texts and so it just always felt like something that was beyond my reach but I'd love to hear about the history of the research that you've done in this area but also your new work.  I don't know if you want to start at the beginning or what your priority is.   one, I start with my dissertation.  the committee that I worked with at University of Wisconsin told me “we're going to go ahead and pass you on this dissertation, but you've got to scrub any of the references to recreational drugs, and you've got to take out the chapter that deals with those, and I you know, I did what I had to, I took it out, and I sent it to St Martin's Press, and they published it.  That was The Chemical Muse.  at the time, in Classics nobody was studying this.  there were a couple of professors that were old “history of medicine” professors.  but no classicists were taking this serious.  and that's where you have to go.  just like you said, Hamilton.  it's the classicists that have the access to the language.  and that language is our hardcore evidence, right?  that is everything.  those sources are everything.  I can tell you what they're going to find in the hair of those people off the coast of Spain, they just found from that dig.  and it's going to be these drugs that are in the texts. so nobody was reading these things, so I started to, and my gawd Hamilton, it just sucked me in, and I've brought to you today, the Theriac.  I've brought to you THE formula, and get this, an encoded formula that matches it.  this is a multi-drug component, that we add to another multi-drug component, and from that we get to a place of complete Health mentally and spiritually.  it's fantastic work.  Marcus Aurelius was on it.  well I'm very curious about that do you want to jump right into the Theriac or do you want to, because I'm sort of curious, more about how you got into this what led you to the realization that psychoactive substances had this significance historically that was not being acknowledged by other Scholars or was even being suppressed.  like what was it that you had found that your committee was discouraging you from writing about and what was your interest before you found these things?  so, my committee was interested in the fact that I was talking about recreational drugs in a dissertation on Roman Pharmacy.  so, the head of the department told me “the Romans just wouldn't do so such a thing”.  and what that showed me at the time, was she didn't understand, because they're not exposed to these texts.  she didn't understand that there is no divide between the religion and the medicine.  that those are happening together.  and when you have priests at Temple complexes writing about all the different drugs that can be used in medicine, and what they do, all of a sudden it opens up a technology, that's what she didn't know.  we didn't have the technology of the ancient world at the tips of our fingers.  Now?  we're starting to.  just from a look at the chemical findings from archaeological sites that's now spurring interest in the actual text.   so, in order to get my dissertation I had to scrub everything that was recreational.  which is fine.  but then of course, it was picked up by a big press, because it's hot material.  so it was from there, Hamilton, that I went deeper.  I said “look I've got to find the deepest of the dark”, you know, I've got to find these drugs, I got to find which ones they're using, how they're using them, I want to know.  and that led me over a period of years right into mystery religions and Cults, right?   you know how that is?  you're going to go right into that group anthropologically.  so that's what I'm doing, the text.  and there's a whole bunch that nobody's ever translated, right? classicists have been, it's not that they're derilect in their Duty.  it's that they've just been plain lazy.  and we have all of these medical texts that are out there, that we don't want to translate.  so I found though, in working on these texts in my graduate years, I found that I couldn't do it without the hard Sciences, right?  there's too much going on.  I can't tell you which plague this is, and what kind of pathogen this is, if I don't have some virology and microbiology.  so I was getting a bacteriology degree at the same time as I was doing my Classics PhD, in order to understand what Galen was talking about.  it's very, you know, the technical language of ancient Greek is so profoundly off the charts, people think all languages are created equal.  they're not!  they're not!   ancient Greek is a behemoth that has a power to go beyond what its neighbor, that Latin, oh my gawd!   those Hut-dwelling-Romans.   my gawd man!   are you kidding?   it was the Greeks who took them their alphabet.  yeah, yeah!   it was a Greek woman, isn't that nice?  nobody ever points that out.  

• Carmenta (Carmentis) was said to have introduced the Roman people to the use of Greek letters, adapting them into what became the Latin alphabet. She is also sometimes linked to early Roman knowledge of Greek culture and literature. In Roman mythology, she was the mother of Evander, who brought Greek customs to Italy and founded the city of Pallantium on the future site of Rome.  She was a mythical Roman prophetess and goddess associated with childbirth and innovation.

but these are all cult figures in the midst of the practice of the ancient Mysteries.  and that's the real connection to the drug use, and the junction of drugs and medicine.  Galen can tell you at the same time “look, hey, we've got Nero's physician” and you know Galen’s riding in like 180CEs 190CEs, and he's talking about Nero back in the 1st (century).  he says.  look Nero’s physician has this formula.  this formula for this Theriac, and he has to go into the discussion of what the Theriac does.   long and short, everybody starts noticing that Marcus Aurelius is looking good!  he looks younger than he did “last time I saw him”, he looks Younger.  what's going on, right?   he's using a Theriac, he's using a drug combo that is full of the most incredibly varied group of plants and animals that you've seen.   bunch of toxins I mean, I know you've been there, Hamilton.   that's why I was so looking forward to this interview, because I want…, you've been there!  you're out there!  you know what I'm talking about, with these religious ceremonies, that's what I dove into, and thanks to all the magic, we, Hamilton, we got a ton of ancient Magic in Greek, right?  we have more ancient magic in Greek, than other cultures have literature, right?  Why?  because this Behemoth.  this Behemoth of the ancient Greek was able to absorb and assimilate and Elevate.   Civilization is the result of ancient Greek.  yeah, take that one,  take that one to your homes.   this is what classicists are supposed to be guarding, right?   but look, they didn't know any of the drugs, they didn't know any of the drugs.  Yeah.   well historically the people that have promoted ideas that are similar to this, people like John Allegro or Carl Ruck.  have been met similarly with a lot of objection and at least in the case of Allegro, maybe you would know better than me, it seems like the objections are potentially valid.  With Carl Ruck and the idea that Ergot was crucial to the Mysteries, the issue that I encountered with that, and I think that many people have encountered, is that it doesn't seem that there's any way to prepare Ergot to produce an LSD-like Visionary experience. 

• Jon Ott (Pharmacotheon) & Albert Hoffman (Road to Eleusis) suggest water extraction of Ergot.  
  • Claviceps purpurea growing on rye, barley, darnel, wheat:  Simple water extraction, dissolving off the water-soluble alkaloids containing ergonovine and methylergonovine, the principal hypothesised psychoactive compounds. Ergonovine, also known as ergometrine or ergobasine, is a psychoactive lysergic acid amide similar in structure to, but far less potent than lysergide, or LSD.  The proposed water-extraction process would also supposedly have prevented the toxic ergopeptine alkaloids of C. purpurea, abortifacient and dangerously vasoconstrictive but not at all psychedelic, from entering the potion. Ergopeptine alkaloids such as ergotoxine and ergotamine were the agents responsible for the recurring plagues of ergotism known throughout European history, so it may safely be assumed that they were somehow excluded from the kykeon.
  • Jon Ott (Pharmacotheon) says:
    • Intrepid experimenters with ergot (a good quantity may be hand-picked from a sack of "organic" rye) desirous of imbibing Demeter's kykeon, must exercise extreme caution.  They should never forget that ergot has poisoned and killed countless human beings throughout history. The ergot sclerotia should not be eaten whole! 
    • To make Demeter's potion (according to Hofmann's theory), the sclerotia are reduced to powder, which is then steeped in cold water. The residual powder is then filtered off and discarded. 
    • Extreme caution with dosage is mandatory, and the wise user would only try a minimal quantity at first. The cautious experimenter would then wait at least a few days before trying a slightly higher dose, if a more intense effect were desired. 
    • Ergot, like LSD and morning glory seeds, is a powerful uterotonic drug, and should assiduously be avoided by pregnant women who should, as already mentioned, avoid all unnecessary drugs, especially nicotine, caffeine and alcohol.
  • Claviceps Paspali growing on grasses (Paspalum distichum).  a much more psychedelic blend of alkaloids than C. purpurea, the toxic ergopeptine alkaloids are largely if not completely absent in this ergot species.  in 1960, the commercial manufacture of simple lysergic acid derivatives by fermentative growth of a strain of Claviceps paspali became feasible.  the ergoamide/ergoline ᴅ-Lysergic acid α-hydroxyethylamide (LAH, LSH) is present as well.
  • Clavicipitaceous fungi such as Periglandula ipomoeae and Periglandula turbinae have a permanent relationship with Convolvulaceae vines, which include morning glory.  The seeds of morning glory plants, such as Ipomoea tricolor, Ipomoea corymbosa, and Argyreia nervosa, contain ergine, alkaloid that is also known as lysergic acid amide (LSA), and the ergoamide/ergoline ᴅ-Lysergic acid α-hydroxyethylamide (LAH, LSH).  Ergine and Ergoline are psychoactive compounds, the Ergoline more visionary, and Ergine more sedative.  LAH easily decomposes to Ergine.   MG or HBWR seeds have no significant toxins to remove.
• Several old testament biblical references also suggest an Ergot sacrament was used, and using water plus a “woollen filter” to remove the toxin-containing fruit.
  • The Mystery of Manna: The Psychedelic Sacrament of the Bible - Dan Merkur, Ph.D. - Park Street Press 2000  (archive.org)
    • There’s a story of sweeping the grain dust off the floor of a grainery, putting it in water with a woolen filter, and straining it out.   Only the pure of soul survives drinking this, or risk being poisoned, they say (really it’s the toxins in the ergot if you don’t strain them out well enough).

you know, there's an enormous number of people that get ergotism.  there's convulsions, there's gangrene, there might be some kind of hallucinations, but it doesn't seem to be comparable to LSD. and so there's this question of, “okay if this was a central practice in this ancient religion, why can't we reproduce it? what is missing?  yeah, yeah. I met Carl Ruck after I published The Chemical Muse.  I didn't know him beforehand.  that's how shunned he was in Classics.  and somebody told me “we're going to send this to experts”, you know. Boom.  sent it out to him.  and he read it, and he was like “this is fantastic”, right?  so I don't know who Allegro was, and to be honest I don't care.  what I am interested in, and the angle that I come from, is from the language and the science.  and that's why Dr Ruck, who is a phenomenal philologist, a most amazing classical philologist I've ever worked with by far. okay? this guy is skilled.  that's what I respect him for, not because he knew Hoffman and Allegro, and all that kind of stuff.  I respect him for his skill, and he is skilled with these texts.  now the thing that he liked about me, was that I was bringing the medical perspective, right?  you're talking about one drug. when you go back to Eleusis you're talking about the Kykeon, and you're saying “oh gawd, was it the lsd…?”, you're talking about one drug, one drug!  do you know the places I've been in the text, and the things that I've seen?  we are talking about compounds with 58 different plants and animal species that are being given to you, to balance something called “The Black Death”. and you know what “The Black Death” has in it?  first ingredient, opium.  second ingredient, aconite.  third ingredient, henbane.  fourth ingredient, Hemlock.  and then there are nine different Venoms.  Venoms, yes, Venoms.  some scorpion as well, you got to have your scorpion in there, right?  and then you mix this stuff all up, and you process, and you got to do very carefully because if you miss one step, the whole thing will be ruined.  your whole batch is ruined, right?  and what do with this stuff?  well you can fumigate.  it you can Huff it.  they put it into pastile form, what do you do with pastilles?  they're little pellets they used to call them “Pebbles”, right, Pebbles.  and they would take these little pastilles and you can burn them or you can dissolve them in your wine.  or, because you know some things don't work that way…. or you can put them onto a dildo, and apply it rectally, or vaginally.  those are two medical roots in Antiquity, did you know that?   we're talking about one drug.  One Drug at Eleusis.  

• Kykeon - The Eleusinian Kykeon was a ritual drink central to the Eleusinian Mysteries, a religious cult dedicated to Demeter and Persephone. It was made from barley, water, and mint, symbolizing both simplicity and agricultural renewal. Participants consumed the kykeon during the rites in the Telesterion, possibly as a means of breaking a sacred fast and achieving a transformative or mystical state.  Some scholars suggest it may have contained psychoactive properties, enhancing the spiritual experience of the Mysteries.  Ergot is one candidate…

did you know the Kykeon is an ingredient in a much larger drug that was being used by Nero, as he went out at night and beat people up in the street because of his thirst for flesh and blood, right?  Wait, what was one ingredient.. the combo of this thing called…  the Kykeon, I'm sorry, the thing that we're talking about at Eleusis, that they take.  that could have that purple rot in it, that brings you the Visions.  you know, that you're talking about.  that's one ingredient in a formula that Nero is using that's way bigger, right?  and it's not just one, it's two drugs, essentially.  it's two compounds:  one is “The Black Death”, and the other is called “the beast”, right?  the Theriac!  and when you combine the two, the two can get you to a place where not only do you physically grow better, but you seem to be more intelligent, and you don't have those problems like Melancholia, that depression thing, you know that's curable, right?  this is Galen.  this is Galen, who's the most scientific SOB in the ancient world.  this is good stuff, people need to pay attention to this, but look the whole point is to put you into a “death and resurrection”.  and why are they putting you into a “death and Resurrection”?  because they're going to shoot you to “the other side”.  you're going to be able to see what it is and when you come back you're not going to have the anxiety that you used to, because you're going to see, your eyes are going to be opened. that's the kind of stuff, they’ve even been talking about christing. did you know christing is a pharmacological term from Antiquity, yeah.  I thought Christ was the name of “the king”.  yeah no, it means to “apply a drug”, on the surface of something else.

• chrio (χρίω): To anoint or smear, often with oil, venom, or medicine.  Touch the surface of the body, rub, anoint with scented unguents (pharmaka), oil, application, rub or infection with poison, clothing impregnated with poisons.   The bite of the Christ.  You put it in your eye.  Christ is a title, not a last name; refers to the act of anointing, healing, or transforming through divine means.
• antichrio (ἀντίχρισμα) - "against the anointing," often referring to a counteragent or antidote
• christos (Χριστός) - the one who christs.  A title given to magus who annoints their followers with drugs.  Means “the anointed one”.  derives from χρίω, a title for a person who annoints with pharmaka, often in mystery cults.
  • Χριστός is a Bronze Age pharmakon term that means a salve or unguent. Its application can be a "rubbed in christing" (ἐγχριστός) as in Interlinear Greek Rev 3:18 (ἐγχρίσαι) states clearly in Jesus' words, or "smeared on christing" (ἐπιχριστός) as in Interlinear Greek John 9:6/11, which describes Jesus spitting on ground and mixing it with dirt and smearing (christing) it on the guys eyes (ἐπιχρίσεν).
  • Χριστός and its applications (ἐγχριστός and ἐπιχριστός) were understood in Jesus time to mean what they meant in the Bronze Age because that is how the NT uses those words. The hallucination (fairy tale) that these words mean something religious today, is what scholars should be OPPOSED to.
• chrisantes (χρῑσάντες) – aorist active participle of χρῑ́ω (chríō), which generally means "to anoint" or "to smear." In medical and ritual contexts, this verb was used for anointing with oils, salves, or ointments, often for healing or purification.
• chresteeres (χρηστῆρες) - healers;  as related to chrestos.   refer to those who combined divine inspiration with medical knowledge

so they would use it for eyes, you put the burning purple in your eyes, right?  and this Burning purple, it's based in an arrow toxin. I told you there was aconite. this is stuff that's coming, Hamilton, from the Black Sea. okay?  so these are arrow toxins, these are arrow toxins that the tribes of Scythians that have been there for thousands of years, those people and the Pelasgians, the ancestors the of the Greeks who settled in Thessaly, you know horse cultures.  these were Arrow-using horse cultures, and you know Galen is from Pergamum, so he's a little bit, he's you know, he's aware of the culture of the arrow poison.  this stuff will open your eyes.  you can use it on an arrow to turn somebody to Stone, right? turn somebody to Stone, or they've got ones that'll make you act nuts, psycho, right?  they're using all of these psychosis inducers that have Scopolamine and Hyoscyamine, right?  so and on top of it, by the way, you know what else is in your juice?  Spanish fly is in your juice.  They're using Spanish fly, to make Satyrs, Hamilton. Satyrs.  Do you understand what a Satyr is, it's a person in a state of complete and total fright and sexual frenzy.  isn't that weird?  it's a panicked sexual frenzy where you have an erection because of the Spanish Fly they're giving you.  It's part of the rite.  And what is the function making somebody into a satyr, then what? because they're going to put you into death and bring you back but when you're entering death they're going to do so with somebody singing her song in your ear, as you are brought to to orgasm, right?  there's a reason the orgy is an orgasm in Greek, it's the same root.  and what are they doing in the rites?  well they're doing something to your brain as you're basically “being killed”, right? chemically.  and that's able to give you some sort of insight, something that you can bring back, and by the way, when it comes to the Mysteries, very intelligent people we're doing them.  Cicero for example, were doing them and saying “look if you haven't been initiated you know nothing you haven't been born again, you haven't come to life again”, right?  

• galene (Γαλήνη) - the calm.  Brought balance to the black death (through antidotes).  Another name for theriac.
• theriac (θριακη) - the beast.  the Greek word therion (θηρίον), meaning "wild beast" or "venomous creature."  renowned medical compound in antiquity, originally designed as an antidote to venomous bites and later expanded to a universal cure-all (a panacea). It was a complex polypharmaceutical, often containing dozens of ingredients, including opium, spices, and various herbs.
• The Black Death - medical polypharmacy from antiquity.  Including:  Opium, aconite,  henbane, hemlock, nine different Venoms including scorpion, aphrodisiacs, nightshades… (possibly more…?)
• thōnesimon (θονήσιμον) - related to thōnē (θόνη), meaning "death" or "destruction."   The Death bringer.   For death/resurrection experience (death without death, and then afterwards a mental rebirth/awakening).

having come back from this death. and it turns out the galene (Γαλήνη) is what they call that Theriac, Hamilton, that they give you in conjunction with “The Black Death”, right? and by the way, they have to tie you up during this time because it induces psychosis, right?  so but that Panic is absolutely necessary for the experience, right?  you see how guided this was? it's amazing, the technology is amazing, so you put your person into a state of psychosis where they're sexually aroused and in panic and you tie them down, restrain them, bring them to orgasm, and because you have given them the galene (Γαλήνη) which contains what? contains the breast milk of that Medusa. you're like huh?? yeah. they're using the breast milk of prepubescent milking Medusae.  oh my gawd.  remember they carry the poison in their hair, that stuff will turn you to Stone. it's a paralytic will drop you on the spot. what is it?  what is the breast milk oh it's the breast milk of a priestess, who are described as having breasts that are prepubertal or grapelike.  these, they've been raising on the Venom. right?  on the compound Venom.  so what do they do? they make, oh I'm sorry I should have backed up, when you're about in your seventh year, you can be dedicated to the temple to become a Medusa.  to be trained. what is a Medusa? in Greek, it just means a guardian, right? it's almost like an administrator, but it's more like a forceful administrator. so they work with the temples.  where is the central power, right? people don't realize that Greece was not a nation, it never was, was just a bunch of city states, right?  that's it. and their unity was driven only by the oracles, who told them where they could set down colonies, right?  whether or not certain tyrants had to be dealt with, right?  they were the political power of the ancient world, and these oracles are the ones that are performing The Mysteries. why else would we listen to a teenage Priestess, unless she could be possessed by the God himself, right?  that's the physics, that's the quantum physics behind their thinking.  so that whole possession thing is absolutely necessary.  it's a part and parcel of the healing cult, so they're using breast milk from these priestesses who have been under the use of the chronic application of a compound that contains, we know, Viper Venom. and that Viper Venom now we know kicks in prolactin production and activates basically your circuit for lactation. so they're using these Venoms to what they called “burn off your mortality”, right? I always thought that was cool.  would you like to have your mortality burned off?  yeah that sounds… so for people that don't know a lot of the background could you just contextualize this a little bit in terms of who is involved with this, what kind of person participates in these ceremonies, when do they do it, why do they do it, is everybody doing it, who is formulating these concoctions and based on our contemporary understanding, what is the pharmacology of what's going on, I mean just give me a little bit of context of what this might have been like for a average person in the ancient world.  I guess the average person wouldn't even have access to this, right? you can't say average. I tell all my students:  anybody who tells you, takes “an average”, or tells you “in general” about Antiquity, you're talking about such a large time frame and change in human civilization that nothing is General, nothing applies all over the place.   I would take us back to the late Bronze Age, when we first see those poisons being used extensively.  as if people have an understanding of dotes and antidotes, and that's exactly how they refer to them. 

• doton (δοτόν) - That which is given.
• antidoton (ἀντίδοτον) - antidote or counteragent
  • anti (ἀντί) - Against, opposite.
  • doton (δοτόν) - That which is given.

and people started using in the Bronze Age these extreme…, you know even toads, they use these extreme toxins and experimented, and Galen tries to help fill in the history and talks about who could experiment and who couldn't and where the push for the knowledge was.  well these are in Scythian tribes that in an area of the world and in the Black Sea, late Bronze Age Black Sea.  that's where everything is happening right, chemically.  that's where everything is happening. that's where these witches come from, right?  the oldest…  remember our word in English for medicine comes from the name of one of these women who became eventually the queen of Babylon, yeah, her name was Medea and you and I say medicine because of her. so what was she known for?  she is an historical figure.  before there were any epics composed by a guy named Homer, there were epics about a woman named Medea. right?  she was the big topic, she is that power behind all of the Greek oracles.  and the Greeks knew this and write about it and write about the fact, Pindar immortalizes her very own prophecies, right?  so okay, this technology,  what is she known for?  she's known for her understanding of the medicines. how the drugs work. both the lethal ones that they call the thonesemoi, those are the death inducers, right?  and you've got to remember in the late Bronze Age, there's no prohibition movements, there's no outlawing, drugs are a part of Nature.  and you are stupid if you aren't plugged in to the nature around you. that's just the way it is, and from that culture develops this thing that ultimately is is still foreign to the Greeks.  still foreign technology. but that they have to embrace and their doctors have to examine, they have to figure out what to do about it, and it's a dote and antidote, using toxins.  the drugs that they're using.  and they are doing chronic exposure.  so you can take the drug, prepare it, right?  everything always has to be prepared, right? you can drink one that doesn't work, you know when you drink it so it has to be administered this way, but when you put it in the eyes or you put it up the rectum then it works. that's the kind of Technology well, they're opening slits, they're making lateral slits on their limbs and then taking a Sindon, taking a medicated bandage and wrapping the wound so that the drug that's been impregnated into the linen wrap will absorb into your body.  

• sindóna (σινδόνα): linen cloth (medicated bandage)

well they do this chronically with the Venoms on girls when they're dedicated at seven years old, and by the time they get to 12, 13, they're fullblown growth hormone influenced, walking Terror, half virgin, half Viper, they called them.  because of the poisons. and they supposedly kept the poisons in their hair, which was to drip down onto the arrows that they're using, to administer the very quick acting paralytics that they've got.  well they're also using these things in Medicine in the late Bronze Age, we have it in the hymns, right? they're using the oistris, they're using the Ios, right? to induce an oistris, a state of mania, right?  they call it “getting stung by the gadfly”, right?  do you want to get stung?  

• oistros (οἶστρος): Estrogen; to sting, to go mad, to rage, frenzy, sexual frenzy, be stung by the gadfly. A driving force or madness, often related to lust or inspiration.

well, when a woman is giving birth, you can sting her with that gadfly, and put her into a place that she relaxes and birthes.  it's really weird, it's probably doing something with the oxytocin and inducing, but it's a pregnancy inducer, right?  now that's funny, you mean one drug that will paralyze you on an arrow will induce pregnancy, will induce delivery? Excuse me?  yes. yes, that's what they're using it for, this level of technology is coming out of the Bronze Age, and they are finding people off the coast of Spain.  old old old spread of this culture which gets as far as we found hair.  Minorca, we found hair with nightshades in it, right? and people are wondering “why do they have this in there, don't they know that this causes Insanity?” exactly, right.  but you balance that with the Theriac the Theriac is the key. remember “the beast” in the apocalypse? that's the Theriac.  people don't realize it, I sat down with Dr Carl Ruck and presented this to him and he laughed and he said “that's better than anything I've heard out of Harvard”.  and if you look at the apocalypse, just linguistically, right?  he's describing numerous times the use of different drugs.  people talk about the wheels of Ezekiel, oh the wheels of Ezekiel, what are the wheels….?!?  right? it's a term for a drug, it's a trochiskos (τροχίσκος). and they use those in the application of drugs.  

• trochiskos (τροχίσκος) in Greek can refer to a small wheel or disk, typically used in a medical or pharmaceutical context for medicinal preparations.  referred to a small disk, typically a medicinal tablet or lozenge, which was often used to administer medicines in a compact form. This could refer to a type of pill or lozenge used in antiquity.

you can take one of those and stick it into your rectum, right? in order to induce the vision. what are you going to see? you're going to see clearer than you ever have. you're going to have that reality. this kind of Technology they're using, and it looks like they're doing it to the extent that they're changing human development.  that they can give you hormones or hormone analogues that will react with your body in a way to create an enhanced form.  so you know it's not odd that the early Christian mystery cult was all about the Venoms, right?  Jesus said I'll give you one of these thōnesimon (θονήσιμον), like, you can take one of these deadly drugs these “death inducers” and you won't die. right?  he says that in the Great Commission to send out, those people. and you know it perfectly fits within the context, if you don't think Jesus Christ was the biggest drug user on the planet, you have not read the original, right?  his very title is a drug title.  and by the way, I just want to set the record straight Hamilton, okay  we all know that Jesus Christ was arrested in a public park at 4:00 a.m. with a naked boy, and the first thing that came out of Jesus's mouth is “I am not a child trafficker” that's in the Greek. what is he doing with that kid? the kid just has a bandage on his private parts. he has a medicated bandage on his private parts, right? this is not a new idea, right? Nonas himself says “look what they were giving Jesus on the cross is an antidote for the Viper Venom, for the Dipsass (snake).  what does it do? it makes you thirsty.  remember Jesus is so thirsty?”  He said.  he oh gawd he's hanging there he's like “oh I'm so thirsty!!” right?  well Nonas says that by the way he says “you can look up that recipe for that antidote that they were trying to give Jesus because of the drugs that he was on when he was arrested in a public park with a naked kid”. now funny thing is people say “what is the naked kid have to do there?”  guess what?  naked kid is producing a substance of communion.  oh yes. this is the genius!  wait of what the Greeks did with that.   so so Jesus is with a naked child with bandaged genitals he says “I am not a child trafficker” but he is using the Naked child as a drug in the text that we have, which is Mark from the Bible Mark 14:51 and 52.  Jesus is there with the naked kid, and the first thing that he says a few verses later as the Roman Squad comes to arrest him is “hey hey hey” he says “hey hey hey I am not a Lestes” and Lestes is the word for child trafficker. 

• lestes (ληστής): (Nominative case) A robber, brigand, or plunderer.  traffickers, Julius ceaser was kidnapped by them, and when he came back he crucified them, because that’s what you do to traffickers. Lestei get crucified.
  • Someone who commits theft, whether through burglary, robbery, or other forms of criminal acquisition.  for various forms of unlawful acts, which could potentially include the kidnapping or exploitation of people in certain contexts.  could also be used in a broader sense to describe an outlaw or marauder.
• lesten - (λῃστὴν) - (Accusative case) A robber, brigand, or plunderer (as the object of action).
• epì gumnós (ἐπὶ γυμνός) - "Upon nakedness" or "on/over [something] naked."
  • epì (ἐπὶ): A preposition that can mean "on," "upon," "over," or "toward," depending on the case of the word it governs.
  • gumnós (γυμνός): An adjective meaning "naked" or "bare."
• neanías (νεανίας) refers to a young man or a youth, typically someone in the later stages of adolescence or early adulthood.
• neanískos (νεανίσκος) refers to a younger boy, often in the context of a boy who is still in the early stages of adolescence or childhood.
• sindóna (σινδόνα): linen cloth (medicated bandage)
• sunakolouthéō (συνακολουθέω) - to follow, accompany
• Mark 14:51,52
  • Verse 48 (for lestes / lesten):
    • καὶ (and) ἀποκριθεὶς (having answered) ὁ (the) Ἰησοῦς (Jesus) εἶπεν (said) αὐτοῖς (to them) Ὡς (as) ἐπὶ (against) λῃστὴν (a marauder / trafficker) ἐξήλθατε (you came out) μετὰ (with) μαχαιρῶν (swords) καὶ (and) ξύλων (clubs) συλλαβεῖν (to seize) με (me). 
  • Verse 51 (for neaniskos, sindona, gumnou):
    • Καὶ (Kai): And
    • νεανίσκος (neanískos): a prepubescent boy.  (iskos makes it little)
    • τις (tis): a certain one, someone
    • συνηκολούθει (synēkolouthei): was following along with
    • αὐτῷ (autō): him
    • περιβεβλημένος (peribeblēménos): having been wrapped
    • σινδόνα (sindóna): a linen cloth (medicated bandage)
    • ἐπὶ (epi): upon, on
    • γυμνοῦ (gumnoû): a naked body
  • Verse 52 (for sindona, gumnòs):
    • καὶ (kai): and
    • κρατοῦσιν (kratousin): they seize, hold
    • αὐτόν (auton): him
    • ὁ (ho): the one (he)
    • δὲ (de): but
    • καταλιπὼν (katalipōn): leaving behind
    • τὴν (tēn): the
    • σινδόνα (sindóna): linen cloth (medicated bandage)
    • γυμνὸς (gumnòs): naked
    • ἔφυγεν (éphygen): he fled, ran away

now that naked kid, according to the Bible, ran off and the guards didn't catch him, but they caught Jesus and the bandage for some reason. they had the detail that the bandage fell off the kid's whoohoo as he ran away.  now interestingly enough the Greeks had taken the knowledge from the Bronze Age and had started to work on it, Pioneer it, right?  just like they did the Greek fire that Medea produced, right?  she produced a Napalm, right? I mean I don't know maybe you can tell me Hamilton why, I mean you're a chemist, man.  why would you add some kind of petroleum product to your Theriac, why would you have black pitch, right?  and they got it from Judea, why would you have black pitch as part of your recipe for your Theriac.  to extract a non-polar substance maybe so you're just setting up the environment basically, it's not that it's doing anything in your system, you're just enabling for the extraction of other… that's genius.  see I knew, I knew you would run with this, what if I can get you this formula? and you know what if you could, you know, maybe figure out what is going on with it?  would that interest you?  and I mean I know that you're always wanting to take it to the lab. that's the ultimate challenge with this historical info of course, taking it to the lab. of course yeah getting it you know I don't know yeah I'm interested but let's talk about it now so what's going on what are these ingredients okay so on the side of The Black Death we've got all the ones that induce that frenzy, induce the Mania, right? the nightshades all of those, we've got the aphrodisiacs on board, and we've got things like aconite which I can't figure out, there's a couple things there that I can't figure out what the chemistry could possibly be doing.  okay, but we take that and we combine that with Theriac which I'll send you, its 66 ingredients actually. you've already got it in that wonderful dissertation from Exitor from 2013 that I sent you.  kudos for such good work.  on Galen, it's a work on Galen and the Theriac, that he wrote to Piso, who is a big wig Aristocrat.  you know what I mean, he's part of the group.  so you asked who's doing this by the way.  we do have it kept in certain families, for example: Julius Caesar, Nero, and Marcus Aurelius, right?  they're all doing the same thing, they're following - and supposedly their whole Imperial household is - at least that's what Galen says, right?  and Galen’s getting worried because Marcus Aurelius’s dosage of opium doesn't seem to be doing what it's supposed to be doing, so he's got to keep upping that right?  so anyway we move on to the Theriac that we make, that compound formula.  and listen, there are explicit instructions for how to make it that I know if you read Hamilton, because you're a chemist, you would appreciate, exactly like you just did, you would appreciate what the hell is going on chemically. that's really what, you know, that's what we need.  I know that the hyoscyamine can make you nuts, it's a psychosis inducer. yeah but what is the combo of I mean the aconite you know contains aconatine and that's a a pretty well-known toxin that has well studied biological effects you know. at high doses will suppress respiration so yeah I mean, it's a very active substance pharmacologically yeah and isn't it classified as a neurotoxin technically? it's yeah it's definitely a neurotoxin yeah slows the heart yeah so you've got so all of these ****they're using them in com… and so what is Jesus doing with this naked child though like he's go ahead what is Jesus doing with the naked child is the idea that the naked child is being chronically administered a drug so that they're able to produce a drug themselves, like the milk of these women who have been given snake Venoms, or what is going on here? yeah, that's the great question. right? what is he doing?  so from the evidence that we have, from the text from the Bible itself, we have that boy there, with the wrap, and we have Jesus saying “he's not involved as a Lestes”, right?  so that puts him in a central position if he's ever used the title of Christ, you know why. it puts him in the central position of harvesting that Galane, right?  and where can you get?  thanks to Galen we know that you can get the Galane from a prepubertal boy or a prepubertal girl.  the boy is through his semen, and that semen is not cloudy. I thought that was interesting when I first read it, I mean it's “oh okay, it kind of makes sense”, right? there's going to be no sperm yet, right? but and this is the genius of Greek medicine, what they did, is they made a form of poly Pharmacy where the person becomes not the thing you're treating, but the thing that treats, that becomes the origin of the Water of Life.  you can create out of a person a drug manufactury, and that's what they're doing, and for example Medea takes her drug that she uses on Jason from her vagina, right?  there's a reason that we have the orgasm and the singing, right?  there's a reason because the human body, it turns out, can produce drugs.  and for some reason - and I talked to a toxinologists in Australia about this, what could it be, it could be antibodies in the breast milk, you know.  we don't know, it's complex. essentially the answer I get, and I get this answer Hamilton all the time from the scientific Community.  it's too complex, it's too complex, there's too many factors involved. so can't you, isn't there some kind of AI?  it's got to be either you and your Genius, or it's got to be some AI that figures out how all of this stuff is working, you know? what is the… can you take a human being and put them into a space that is elevated, that all of a sudden there you know is there a reason Marcus Aurelius is writing what he's writing, right?  is there a reason that all of a sudden he seems to be doing so well mentally, and Galen tells us “hey this this thing will let make you live many more years than you would normally” …. it's also a treatment for cancer, I'm sorry I won't interrupt you.  if you were to recreate the formula?  yeah you could do animal experiments and get an idea of what types of broadly speaking biological effects the mixture is having I mean there's also the good oldfashioned technique of self-experimentation to recreate it and then try it yourself. what are we going to do though, because it the Water of Life comes from an ejaculate. we'd have to have, you know. we'd have to have a priestess, see that's the magic of the Mysteries. it is an Incarnation that Priestess is able to ejaculate “that which gives you Aionic life”, right? there is no such thing as “eternal life”, people have not read the Bible. 

• Aionic Life (Ἀϊονικὴ ζωή) - Aion outside of time, eternal or divine dimension of existence, beyond the constraints of human, mortal time.  And life - Zoe denotes a more profound form of life.
  • Aionic Life, in the context of pre-Christian mystery cults, can be understood as life in union with the divine or eternal existence as promised to the initiates who underwent rites of initiation. These rites, often involving symbolic death and rebirth (as seen in the Eleusinian Mysteries), were designed to liberate the soul from the confines of mortal existence, offering the initiates an experience of life that was beyond human time where times stands still — compared to divine immortality.
  • experiences or rituals involving symbolic death (such as initiations where one "dies" and is reborn) creates a profound spiritual rebirth during the initiate’s lifetime, where the initiate gains access to a divine realm or cosmic order that transcends mortality and earthly suffering.  The initiate afterwards is now able to live without fear.  Learning to live in the present without anxiety of that future or depression of the past, without suffering.
• Aion (αἰών) - an experiential or transcendent state in which an individual steps outside the normal flow of time, often through altered states of consciousness (induced by pharmakon or other means). It is a timeless, mystical realm or condition where the individual gains access to knowledge or wisdom beyond the limitations of ordinary perception.  Aion in this sense is not just a period of time (like an age or era) but a realm of existence that transcends chronological time. It represents a divine or otherworldly experience, where one can receive visions, insights, or revelations from outside the constraints of normal time.   In the context of a pharmakomantis (drug seer), to be “in the Aion” is to enter a state of heightened perception or spiritual ecstasy, where one may perceive visions of the past, present, or future, often with the guidance or influence of substances that alter the mind. This state is seen as being outside of normal, linear time and offers a broader, cosmic perspective on existence.   Aion is a key concept in mystical and prophetic traditions, where time becomes fluid, and the individual attains access to divine or cosmic wisdom, often experienced as a direct, non-linear insight into the nature of existence.
• Zoe - (Ζωή) - pronounced like Zoë. Eve—life. Everything in the mystery revolves around dzoh-way. The Septuagint calls Eve life. Her name was a Bacchic shout—life! The devil gave her the fruit and said, "God’s a liar."

I used to tell this to my seminarians, none of you have read the Bible.  don't point at me and quote a damn thing because you have not read the Bible.  I'm telling you, if you haven't read it in it's original, you haven't read it.  and you're going to miss these things, like that bandage that was on that naked kid's private parts.  you're going to miss that kind of stuff.  on the medical side, that's normal, right? that's normal, that's why someone like me who worked on the medical text we're going to have a an understanding of an Antiquity that you're not afforded today, because our Scholars, no thank you, have managed to ignore what is the most important, probably the most important aspect of the ancient world.   Galen says by the way that the use of these drugs… the use of these drugs and the damaging potential they possess is the greatest threat to humanity. and he's saying this in Rome in the second century, the end of the second century, right?  are the Cults using these? yes!  the Cults are using these.  are the Christians using these?  yes!  the Ophites whose name means they're a Christian sect and their name means “serpent”, they are using the Venoms in their own rite.  and by the way they're getting it through ejaculation, right?  don't let that surprise you, the Roman officer corp’s doing the same thing in their little meetings of Mithras, right? they're using the human compounding mechanism, so that we could make you Hamilton the dispenser of “that which gives us life”, would you like that?  it's a fascinating idea that really doesn't have many or any parallels in our world you know the idea of using the biotransformations of an organism to produce a drug. I've seen this mentioned, I think there was an idea of feeding ducks toads?  do you know this idea? no I don't recognize that one but yeah, or licking toad bottom.  you know you can lick a toad bottom, and get the same thing in a person.  no, I didn't know that that's in medieval, and when you enter the church, right? when you enter the church there's that giant toad there and everybody kisses his bottom, right?  I'm assuming in doing that that they're using the toad that we find in the Theriac much earlier on.  but yeah they talk about the toad, I was just trying, that was the most intelligent thing I've heard in months that you just said.  I am so glad that you see it, do you see that real potential there? I certainly see the potential and I've seen it discussed in in ancient Mesoamerican contexts that you could feed toads to ducks and then use the Ducks as a means of processing the Venom and then the drug becomes the duck but and this is something that Shulgin was very interested in during the early part of his career was this possibility it's somewhat evidence-based at least in animals that you could take the essential oils from various plants like nutmeg or you could do this with you know sassafras as well I think it was a rabbit that they tested this in was capable of nitrogenating the double bond in these Al Benzene essential oils so you could conceivably convert elamise to TMA or saffril to MDA, or really any fenel-propene to its respective amphetamine, and the idea was similar:  what if you could harness metabolic biotransformations of plant compounds to produce drugs to use them as sort of Pro drugs and it was never demonstrated in humans I think that there isn't evidence that this sort of transformation occurs in humans but the idea is very provocative and I'm sure there are many instances of such things at least being hypothetically possible it makes me wonder if you'd have to work on the chemistry within the context of the biochemistry.  it's like they even do it down to the level of look - is you're killing somebody, and this includes a newborn baby which they're doing, or if you're killing the one that your group is going to consume the blood of and the flesh of, then that person has to be in a state of panic, has to be put through certain situations, so that they are able to produce something that you absorb through the blood, and that this satiates that funny desire that everybody who's on the Theriac combo with The Black Death gets, and that is that extreme hunger for blood, and for Slaughter.    and as I'm reading this stuff I'm asking myself “okay so I understand they're using the drug to change kind of the way that you think and perceive, and I understand that they're using the drug to kind of transform you physically, where is it that we get that perfect balance where The Black Death and the Theriac come together and make that child of God” they called them.  you burn off your mortality.  what kind of place, it makes me think that we're going to have to have a ton of biochemist biochemistry to find out what's the human body doing to it?  I mean you're a chemist. you could take all of this and analyze it just like you just did, and say “okay it's likely that these substances are predominate” but now what do we do when we take those substances and say “how is the body using them, how is the body responding to create an even bigger drug that now they're getting from a priestess ejaculating into a tripod” and they, by the way, they follow this into the Middle Ages, the satanists and witches do this in the Middle Ages.  she ejaculates after having masturbated with a drug covered dildo, and then the congregation they take that they wash it off carefully and they take that and they prepare it as a communion drink, right? it is her fire that she is giving you directly.  and by the way, that stuff will put you down, right?  so what I'm wondering is how, Hamilton, is it possible to take it to the level of figuring out what it's doing in the human body, and then what we could benefit from that medically?  it's definitely possible but the issue is is that the preparation seems to involve so many bizarre and unethical ingredients that it would be a enormous challenge to produce what so these things contain semen of prepubescent boys and milk of prepubescent girls that's a necessary ingredient in these concoctions correct.  In that galene (Γαλήνη), right?  so yeah well now you know why Jesus felt the way that he did, that was obviously a problem for the traffickers at the time.  but that's why they were using those children. so you ask me what is Jesus doing in a public park at 4:00 A.M with a naked boy?  he's gleaning substances he needs for the “cup of God” that he's just been talking about taking as the Christos, right?.  people has anybody ever seen… I love this Hamilton… has anybody ever noticed that the apostles are all teenagers? has anybody ever noticed that?  that when Jesus is when in an upper room and he gets naked, he's there with a group of teenagers that he gives substances to, as his body and blood, right? apparently some of the the antidotes that he needed, he didn't get. so they were trying to give him, yeah.  it's a strange world, when you look at the chemistry of antiquity it's a strange world.  you know there's a lot more interaction with these things, so I wanted to ask you, despite the fact that these things are unethical, could we get, you know, go around it buy doing it with an AI, you know, could we, you know, simulate?  this stuff be you know mathematically crunched down to one equation that we can run?  and who knows, cure cancer maybe, you know maybe they weren't “full of it”. maybe they were being real when they said “hey this stuff kills cancer” yeah certainly not now.  in 10 years who knows you know modeling the complexity of biological systems and Drug metabolism especially poly drug interactions is simply not something that could be done with a mixture of this complexity. so I would say not now but one day maybe. I mean one thing that strikes me about all this, is that it has a Eerie resemblance to the sort of contemporary pizzagate conspiracy theories that Hillary Clinton and the Clinton Foundation are trafficking children to use them as drugs.  and I think one reason that people were attracted to these conspiracy theories is there was something so outlandish and bizarre and Impossible about it. but to hear you describe something so similar in the ancient world is pretty funny and I don't doubt for a moment that when this interview is released some people will see it as a validation or a confirmation of their conspiracy theories.  is that something that you've considered? you know what the first time somebody tried to validate with me that's when I realized, oh man, this is going to pull in some craziness, right?  now the place that i like to be, is, what's the evidence, right? and just recently on lady Babylon, I just pulled out the Greek text.  all I do is I pull out with my audience, I pull out the Greek text, and I show them the Greek text. and we do translations and show them great stuff, and one of the episodes we did was of a Christian cult, a christian Gnostic leaning cult that was artificially inseminating, and then using fresh born babies to reap a drug. right? you cut, you make very specific cuts into the child and specific places, and you bleed them, right? you bleed them and then you use that in your communion.  so we know the Christians, you know this is the irony isn't it?  the Christians are doing the the baby harvesting a lot earlier, and I don't know what it is, and they say very specifically that you have to get this child within right away, right after it's delivered, right? and you're going to be using, it's very specific, it says you're going to be using this later, as part of the main communion.  so yeah the Christians are harvesting those fetuses because you know we've known for a long long time that you can take a fetus that's grown under very specific circumstances, and you can use it for what you and I would call unethical purposes, but you know these same people are are taking their newborns out to the streams in their communities and submerging them in the freezing water, pulling them up letting them sit there in that freezing water, and the ones that don't make it that die, those were not meant to continue on, right? these are I didn't know that these are tough people, we also eat male babies if we're, yeah.  sorry I'm unfamiliar we eat male babies, right?  who did this what was this was a widespread practice or what are you describing right now?  so the tribes that are coming up with the arrow toxins the Ios, what the Greek called the Ios. the tribes that are coming up with that, those Black Sea Scythians those people have groups that do things, like they colonize, but they are Marauders and the women cannot marry until they kill three men in a raid, right?  it's just the way it is.  some of these groups Splinter off, and they got one in Spain that has these Scythian roots and what do they do, they take their children when they're born as a boy and they eat them, and the girls they raise because it's an all girl tribe, right?  these are relatives of the Amazone right? then the amazonians and people think “what the amazonians, that's myth” no we have graveyards in Athens where people were buried who were in those battles with the Amazonian women.  because they could kick your backside, man.  not only from the toxins that they had, that they were using on their bows.  but those women were so serious.  you know they would change their bodies to become the best archers that they could.  and the Romans when the Romans finally run up against the Parthians, they can't deal with a horse archery with the toxic arrows that's in the East right, this is the Romans.  and they can't deal with the horse toxin, that horse arrow toxins.   they just can't do it.  so it's a technology that really floated the power of the Bronze Age, that even by the time Jesus is walking around, the Romans are still dealing with the use of these very same drugs Within These Mysteries to bring death and Resurrection.  yeah.  and but back to the use of newborns as drugs I mean this is a Trope that you see in a lot of discussions of Witchcraft. is there evidence that this was actually done? yeah yeah Eustathius for example, just go to Eustathius and he shows everything about how this Christian sect, you know, and they're discussing whether or not this is acceptable, right? how that they're using these drugs and creating life from this special technique that you require the most educated priestesses to be involved in. and when they produce the babies they bleed them. you can check that out, right?  but if you want to really look at kids and how because it the problem is we have a different view, we have a different view than much of what you find in Antiquity, directly through the text.  we kind of have a different view of life and conception and all that kind of stuff.  when you can hunt your own mates, you don't need feminism, you need drugs, and those drugs will bring you to a place that you can rule the world. and hence the oracles did, right? this power is coming from that, and you can find the baby uses all over the place, right? remember when, for example, when Medea dedicates her children at the temple - and this is an action that you do whereby the child is fumigated, is purified, right?  once again, it is a religious / medical practice and Medea loses two of her children in this process.   being dedicated at the Temple of Hera, we're told.  so it's kind of a different view of, you know, it doesn't look odd for us to use children as sources of medicines when the standard is nature, right?  the standard is survival. the power is in nature, it's not in that monotheism, right? it's not in Yahoo or Jove.  it's not in them.  it's in nature which is behind everything.  so if nature says that baby. imagine a newborn mother taking a fresh born kid and putting him into a freezing stream, and if a kid dies, the kid dies, if he doesn't, you know, congratulations, nature meant for that child to survive.  so it's a kind of a different approach, right,  to what a child is.  they're doing the same thing with the adults, and the production of the drugs in the body.  and people don't realize it.  Carl Ruck knows that, he's written about it, about the use of body fluids. Hamilton, I got to tell you, there's so many body fluids being used, and this whole idea of the consumption of blood, this whole idea of that vampire figure that's coming straight out of the anthropology of antiquity.  it's coming right out of that. and as soon as I saw the Medusae using their toxins from their arrows, it's coming from their hair?  I realized, oh man, you can always if you just follow the drugs, you can always find that base reality. I hope you're wrong, and that it doesn't take 10 years. I fear you are, because you're smart as hell, right? and I know “okay fine another 10 years” but Hamilton I don't want to wait 10 years if this thing cures cancer.  isn't there a way to, isn't there any other way to do this, to solve what is this massive compound, what is it doing for the person? well yeah I mean the first thing would be reformulating it to the best of your ability and if certain ingredients cannot be ethically sourced like you know anything involving human production of a substance would probably have to be approximated in some way. okay so I mean let's lay it out what are the what are the ingredients that would be necessary for this concoction that would be impossible to ethically produce anything produced by the people.  unfortunately the Cup itself then can't be produced.  the communion itself.  so in the apocalypse when the big enemy is revealed to be Lady Babylon and she has the word mystery written on her forehead, the text says it's the cup of her pornea that IS that power, right?  that opposes Yahoo.  right?  totally opposes that power.  and so if we can't have her ejaculate, if we can't have… it's basically, I see what it is, it comes down to this, if we cannot have a an oracular Priestess to produce this Water of Life, we can't have our cure to cancer.  she ultimately is THE source.  That's Why They Call Her the soterya, the savior, right?  it's older than Jesus's title, right?  it's that oldest, it comes from those orphic hymns of who she is, that savior, right?  

• sotera (σωτῆρα) - bringer of Salvation, deliverance, safety, preservation, or healing.  process of spiritual purification and salvation, where initiates sought deliverance from worldly suffering or even rebirth in the afterlife. This could involve rituals of purification, healing, and an eventual understanding of the divine mysteries.  would promise not just physical safety or health, but a kind of mental transformation that led to an enhanced, more harmonious relationship with the divine (like enlightenment).  Often delivering purification rites where an initiate underwent symbolic death and rebirth to gain spiritual insight.  First savior was a woman / midwife.

so unless we have her, we can't produce the communion, there's no way to get it.  what is it that she is can you, what if you could ethically… what is the ingredient that she is producing?  this you say, your ejaculate? what is this that you are describing.  so it's a combination. It's a combination of what she is putting on the dildo, and what she is producing with her body.  so if she is that Oracle, she will be in a position to dispense that lifegiving water, but she is a Vestal so she's not being raped, right?  now although they do refer to the presence of the god, like Apollo when he entered the Oracle, right? these are specific events, when he entered the Oracle before she prophesied.   that was often described in context of rape, but it was a kind of a cosmic rape, kind of a full body rape, there's nobody actually entering the room because these are virgins.  the early Christian cult that takes this up, right, remember that Paul the Apostle is immune to Viper Venom, and everybody's “what the??” right?  and he's shrugs it off, and Jesus is holding up the snakes, right?  saying “I'm going to teach you how to do this”, right?  and “I'll give you this drug and it won't kill you”.  all of that is coming from this very same tradition.

• Acts 28 - from Nestle1904
  • 3 συστρέψαντος (having gathered) δὲ (but) τοῦ (of the) Παύλου (Paul) φρυγάνων (sticks, twigs) τι (some) πλῆθος (bundle) καὶ (and) ἐπιθέντος (having placed) ἐπὶ (on) τὴν (the) πυράν (fire), ἔχιδνα (a viper) ἀπὸ (from) τῆς (the) θέρμης (heat) ἐξελθοῦσα (having come out) καθῆψεν (fastened) τῆς (of the) χειρὸς (hand) αὐτοῦ (of him).   4 ὡς (when) δὲ (and) εἶδον (they saw) οἱ (the) βάρβαροι (natives, barbarians) κρεμάμενον (hanging) τὸ (the) θηρίον (creature, beast) ἐκ (from) τῆς (the) χειρὸς (hand) αὐτοῦ (of him), πρὸς (to) ἀλλήλους (one another) ἔλεγον (they said), Πάντως (certainly) φονεύς (a murderer) ἐστιν (is) ὁ (the) ἄνθρωπος (man) οὗτος (this), ὃν (whom) διασωθέντα (having been saved) ἐκ (from) τῆς (the) θαλάσσης (sea), ἡ (the) Δίκη (Justice) ζῆν (to live) οὐκ (not) εἴασεν (allowed).   5 ὁ (he) μὲν (indeed) οὖν (then) ἀποτινάξας (having shaken off) τὸ (the) θηρίον (creature) εἰς (into) τὸ (the) πῦρ (fire), ἔπαθεν (suffered) οὐδὲν (nothing) κακόν (evil, harm).   6 οἱ (they) δὲ (but) προσεδόκων (were expecting) αὐτὸν (him) μέλλειν (to be about) πίμπρασθαι (to swell up) ἢ (or) καταπίπτειν (to fall down) ἄφνω (suddenly) νεκρόν (dead). ἐπὶ (after) πολὺ (a long time) δὲ (but) αὐτῶν (of them) προσδοκώντων (waiting, expecting) καὶ (and) θεωρούντων (observing) μηδὲν (nothing) ἄτοπον (unusual) εἰς (in) αὐτὸν (him) γινόμενον (happening), μεταβαλόμενοι (having changed their minds) ἔλεγον (they said) αὐτὸν (him) εἶναι (to be) θεόν (a god).
  • Analysis:  Here, they test Paul’s immunity to snake venom, which he built by participating in mystery rites involving venoms previously applied/annointed on him (chrio / χρίω, doton / δοτόν) and their antidotes (antichrio / ἀντίχρισμα, antidoton / ἀντίδοτον).   Literally.
• Terms used above in Acts28:
  • echidna (ἔχιδνα) - viper.  Derived from the root ἔχις (echis), meaning snake or serpent
  • therion (θηρίον) - creature, the beast.  Also the name for Theriac death inducer potion.
  • zēn (ζῆν) - to live.  From ζω- (to live), means life.
  • theon (θεόν) - like a god, immortal (in this case, not able to be harmed)
• Terms used above in the analysis:
  • doton (δοτόν) - That which is given.
  • antidoton (ἀντίδοτον) - antidote or counteragent
    • anti (ἀντί) - Against, opposite.
    • doton (δοτόν) - That which is given.
  • pharmakon (φάρμακον) - A term that can mean both "poison" and "medicine"
  • antipharmakon (ἀντίφάρμακον) - A counterpoison or remedy.
  • chrio (χρίω) - To anoint or smear, often with oil, venom, or medicine.  The term Christos (Χριστός, the anointed one) derives from χρίω, a title for a person who annoints with pharmaka, often in mystery cults.
  • antichrio (ἀντίχρισμα) - "against the anointing," often referring to a counteragent or antidote

but you have to have that human cup to produce the Ambrosia.  that's it or you don't get it.  all I can figure is it's what is coming from her body that would come naturally in an ejaculate, with somebody who had been put through the rigors of that Priestly training, so however their body has been changed, they're producing that in ejaculate form, but they're also using specifically what they call “the burning purple” on that dildo, right? and it's got its formulas, right?  we're talking about the myrrh, right?  we're talking about the oil which you add the nard to it, right? more botany.   and that thing covers the dildo that she uses to bring herself to orgasm and that product is then your communion.  so yeah.  can we ethically source that?  I don't know.  here's the other thing about what you're describing that I think is really important everything that you're saying is extremely interesting from a symbolic nonpharmacological standpoint and this is something that I think often gets left out of discussions of pharmacology but especially when it pertains to religious forms of drug use it is so crucial to the experience that to neglect to recognize it would be to completely misunderstand the nature of the drug effect. so for example when people talk about ibogaine separately from the effect that it has in the Bwete religion in Iboga ceremonies in Central West Africa they're not realizing that there is a component of fasting they're not realizing that there is animal sacrifice.  and if you were to say, okay, what is the pharmacological effect of this animal sacrifice?  I imagine there wouldn't be one, but there's a psychological effect from the symbolism, so you say, “what is the pharmacological effect of burying someone alive with their head peeking out of the soil and asking them to look at the stars while they're tripping and buried in the ground overnight” what is the pharmacological effect?  well there might not be any pharmacological effect but the psychological effect from the symbolism of that action is going to be tremendous and this is often neglected because it's almost impossible to study certainly impossible to study in animals. so when you think about all these things you're describing the sexual elements the sacrificial elements the symbolism of venomous animals all of this is going to confer a psychological Dimension to the experience that would be very difficult to study in an abstract way especially if you were to remove it you wouldn't you would lose all of that and this is another reason that I would say that not only is this something that would be essentially impossible to study with AI, it's something that I think would be impossible to study without a complete Recreation of all of the symbolic psychological dimensions of these rituals. I don't know if you're familiar with the book The Serpent and the Rainbow by Wade Davis, but he describes this idea of zombification as a part of voodoo religion in Haiti and the zombification formula is very complex but if you were to reduce it to its simplest form it would be tetrotto toxin containing puffer fish that induce a state of paralysis and the paralyzed victim is then buried alive and once the effect of the drug has subsided they are exhumed and they are then a zombie. now I think for people that have never experienced some of the cultures in rural Haiti or have never seen vooodoo ceremonies in person, they are going to lack the ability to appreciate the symbolic psychological religious dimensions of the culture, which allow things that otherwise might not be possible to actually happen. right? you can't pharmacologically isolate the zombification phenomenon from the voodoo religion, because it is the religious cultural Matrix in which these practices are thought to occur that really allow it to exist. one prerequisite is probably believing in the idea of zombies.  so to be raised in a culture where you grew up thinking that zombies are a real thing to not have a materialist awareness of puffer fish derived neurotoxins, to not have a pharmacological understanding of delirant plants.  all of this works in tandem to allow a effect that would otherwise be impossible to achieve. now there's some debate about whether way Davis's hypothetical explanation of zombification in Haiti is correct.  it remains very controversial to this day but I at the very least certainly agree with his foundational premise that this is something that cannot be extracted from the historical cultural religious Matrix in which it occurred I wonder if that's why the song is such an important element in the mystery, because they've got that Medea who's singing that song into your ear while you're going into this death Place, into this death mode, and then bringing you back and it's that song they say that's most important.  I wonder if that's your psychology, your images, that you're sneaking in there. if we had that song, then we'd understand the rite even better. unfortunately it was written on a golden fleece that a dragon protected, and yeah and it's been forever lost to history.  

• quindecimviri - The Latin word quindecim means "fifteen," and viri means "men." So, the term translates to "fifteen men" (the number of priests in the group).   Which refers to the members of the quindecimviri sacris faciundis.  This was a college of 15 priests in ancient Rome who were responsible for guarding and interpreting the Sibylline Books, a collection of prophetic texts. 

unless you look at Valerius Flakus who's one of the quindecimviri, one of the people who had access to the Sibylline books. Not Sybiline Oracles, the Sybiline books. remember they called Christians Sibylists before they called them Christians, right, for this reason.  they're into those songs that those prophetesses are producing.  I wonder, Hamilton, is that how they're controlling, you know you're saying, those symbols that are coming through in the rite, really you know there's no way to measure that effect on the person, maybe that even affects the way the drugs are working in the body, right? you putting the person into a state of mind with those drugs.  you know Pliney says the Magi have drugs that are so strong, Mania inducers specifically, that are so strong that you can extract any information from them you want.  so these are used, the drugs these Magi use, are used by tyrants, right?  to get information because the Magus will become whatever dark form it is that needs to pull that information out of you.  so I mean that's like an extreme example of how the psychology will, you know, the symbols will affect the psychological response to the drugs.  oh gawd, I love that, I love that.  because it you know it's something that we don't consider because it's completely absent in our current medical practices. nobody you know, you go to a doctor you say “I can't focus” they write the word Ritalin on a piece of paper you bring it to a pharmacy they put the Ritalin tablets in a plastic bottle and you go home and that's it. there's never a moment where they you know shake a rattle around and light a candle and spit alcohol in your face and say I am giving you a potion that will provide relief from the demon of attention deficit and you will suddenly be able to focus. all of that is so absent from our culture that it's very easy to forget that Not only was that present in most historical medical practices.  solid argument can be made that it may have been the primary medical intervention.  do you think that the Resurgence or the creation of the Psychedelic Renaissance that we're entering, where people are going to be looking for the use of drugs in mental health, do you think this is going to provide a platform for us to get to a place where we could bring back these practices and this type of medicine?  well I mean I think that so much of this has been relegated to the fringes of the fringes, right? Carl Ruck as you said is somebody who was really not taken seriously and even among people in the psychadelic world these questions about ancient use of Ergot were just a kind of speculative “hey wouldn't that be cool, I wonder” kind of thing, but as more and more people become interested and it becomes less Fringe then inevitably more people are going to begin seriously researching these questions. I mean you are just one person who understood the significance of drugs in these ancient practices. imagine if you had a hundred people like yourself what they might find so I think that it's inevitable that as more people become interested in this subject that there will be a greater understanding. that said I still think there are these fundamental issues with reproducibility in some of these ancient preparations. and you know you're exactly right.  for two of the ingredients that are on there, we don't even, we can't find anymore, right? the ancient Silphium, that I'm sure you've heard of, and it was such a popular drug it was processed in Libya, North Africa. and Galen went down at one point in his career and bought 20,000 tablets of it, right?  just an inordinate amount, just ridiculous!  but that's how common it was we can't find it anymore.  it was a miracle drug in Antiquity. well you know someone found it but we can't find it and then they've got limnian Earth.  did they actually find the the original?  I thought they found like a relative. they found a plant that seems like a very strong candidate for being the original silphium in Turkey the species was ferula drudiana…? fantastic, well there's one down, right? there's something they call limnian Earth, too. and Galen is big on limnian Earth.  especially he uses it in a breast cancer treatment, he actually opens the breast, and puts the limnian Earth in this kind of, he adds a couple other ingredients to it, and then he puts it against the tumor, and closes up, and apparently that is you know their treatment for breast cancer.  when I first saw that I was shocked, but they call it limnian Earth. one of the difficulties with recreating some of these things is that when people have tried it hasn't been successful you know for all of the discussion of the psychoactive effects of Ergot I'm not aware of anyone that has convincingly made a preparation from Ergot without of course using sophisticated organic chemistry techniques.  I'm not aware of anybody that has made a preparation using processes that would have been available to people who participated in the Eleusinian Mysteries that produces a Visionary LSD type effect and this makes me wonder you know why do you think that is and also have you seen any evidence of mushroom use in Antiquity? yeah!  I'll answer the second part first, yeah a ton of mushroom use. every time for the last 10 years that I've gotten a reference to mushrooms, I'll send to Ruck, just to pile on man because people were giving him a hard time about talking about use of mushrooms in Antiquity.  it's all over the medical stuff, right?  so yeah, and so yeah the mushroom stuff is there, it's not in this formula, but could it could it also be a factor that this formula for the Theriac you have to actually let it sit for years, right?  it has to sit for 12 years before it's fully potent and Galen says “you can use it up to about 60 years.” okay, so that alone and and to answer the first part of your question, Galen specifically addresses this, he says “look these are complex formula, and if you don't do it exactly in this way” or he says “there are a couple of variations this doctor has this one, this doctor has that one”, he gives a couple of variations but he says “if you don't prepare it exactly in the right way, it will not work, nothing will happen” the Kykeon is one ingredient that thing that they're using that you're talking doesn't have the you know Ergot in it, that is one ingredient in this formula I don't know what happens in their processing.  that's why i'd like a chemist like you to be able to look at it and say “this is what they're ultimately extracting, this is what their active principles are”, I would love that but the process of producing it Galen says over and over again “these compound formula, you cannot make them unless you follow very precise instructions” and it's so bad that Pliney makes fun of it, right? makes fun of this drug preparation by saying look the measurements he says that they're using are so small nobody could ever measure at that level which makes you think: wait a minute, if these doctors are coming out and they're saying, you're just using micro amounts of these drugs and there's 65 of them and it has to be added a certain way.  it makes me think it's our inability to reproduce it.  These formulae, not necessarily, well nobody had yet come up with the Kykeon that has that kick that throws you into a psychotropic experience, right? we don't understand the chemistry yet of what they were doing, which is what to me is so beautiful.   the more I read of these medical doctors from Antiquity, and Hamilton there's so many of them that people haven't translated:  Orabasius, Aedius of Amida, Alexander of Tralles, right.  

• Oribasios (Ὀρίβασιος) – A famous Greek physician from the late Roman Empire, known for his medical writings.
• Aedesius of Amida – seems to be talking about Aedesius (Ἀηδησῖος), a 4th-century philosopher and teacher of the Neoplatonic school in Amida (modern Diyarbakır, Turkey).
• Alexander of Tralles (Ἀλέξανδρος ὁ Τραλλιανός) – A renowned Greek physician from the Roman era, famous for his contributions to medicine.
• Philodemus (Φιλήδημος) - Philodemus was a Greek philosopher and poet from the 1st century BCE. He was a prominent member of the Epicurean school of philosophy and is known for his writings on ethics, friendship, and pleasure. His works were influential in ancient philosophy, and several of his texts have survived in papyri found at Herculaneum.  And has untranslated works on venomous drugs….  (does Dr Hillman mean Philomenus?...  )
• Philumenus (Φιλούμενος)
  • On Deadly Poisons (Περὶ Θανάσιμων Φαρμάκων) - Original Greek (not available)
    • Oribasius, a 4th-century Byzantine physician, preserved parts of Philumenus' writings in his medical compendia. Oribasius quotes Philumenus on venomous bites, particularly concerning snakes and other poisonous animals
    • Aëtius, another Byzantine physician, also includes Philumenus' insights in his Tetrabiblos, a medical encyclopedia.
  • De venenatis animalibus eorumque remediis - Medieval latin translation

There's a whole bunch, there's a guy called Philodemus.  Nobody's translated this, and he writes an entire work just on the venomous drugs that are used, just on the ones that are derived from venomous creatures, right?, well this seems like, everything, only the good stuff, it makes you wonder from the level of complexity that Galen is saying that it gets, and you can see that, he talks about that partially in that work that I sent you… I want you to also know Hamilton that there's a ton of other works just by Galen for example he wrote a work called “the antidotes” and that's never been translated, nobody has delved into that, and it's a huge work.  it makes this one look tiny. and he talks about how these drugs are working, how they work as simples, how they work as compounds, but he's always, he's rubbing up against the same ceiling that you and I are talking about, in that he says “how do we find out, how do we really find out and test”.  what he says for example you can test a purgative on a person.  you can give them the Theriac beforehand.  and if it works when you give them the purgative you can give them a black hellbore and that'll Purge anyone, right?  it'll give them diarrhea, terrible diarrhea, right?  but if you administer the Theriac beforehand, the hellbore does not have that effect.  and Galen says it'll go on and have a different effect in the body so it'll clear out the mucus that you have in your lungs, on top of not purging you.  so he says it's these combinations really, that are what's most important.  that's the most advanced part of the science. that's what I'm wondering, you know we talk about the Kykeon and is it LSD?  because we're thinking in unidimensional terms, this is the First Dimension.  we need to think about not what that drug does alone, but what it does in a group, and how it works can be incapacitated as a toxin and capacitated as a cardiac stimulant.  you know, that's the level of advanced pharmacology that these Physicians are running up against, these very reputable you know mainstream Pagan Physicians.  so I'm just wondering is it that we don't understand how the ancient medicine works?  is that part of it, you know?  they are keeping it as a huge secret it's a state secret what the formula is, right?  you're not supposed to be able to reproduce it.  the one that you you take during your visit to Eleusis, you're not supposed to be able to reproduce that outside of the context of the rite.   so I think you nailed it with the symbols and the images that are so important and I know you've been there in those situations where those religious rights really start coming to life.  is it just I just want to ask you this because I have so much respect for what you've done.  is it the case that we can bring back this mystery? or is this forever going to be running up against the ceiling?  it just depends on so many different variables. I mean the first step is doing the best that can be done to recreate these different potions, and then seeing if in isolation the approximations of these potions produces an effect that is aligned with what has been reported historically and if it hasn't then the next step would be to consider what sorts of psychological contributions the religious or cultural context might have made. and then you get into other complicated and connected issues like Placebo or no-cebo effects and it's really very complicated to recreate something. I don't think it's impossible I think at the very least it's possible to begin to understand what might have been the case but if it is dependent on a complex interplay of cultural historical religious symbolic effects that cannot exist in our culture then maybe it could never be fully reproduced.  which is I guess why bringing back Lady Babylon is so important.  I mean you know we talk about symbols but LadyBabylon is an actual person who's actually doing something, right?  they're anthropologically they are producing a drug, and we are the recipients of this lifegiving, cancer curing, mind growing, and body maintaining drug.  we should be able to get, that's why it’s tied directly into the economy.  you talk about in Antiquity you talk about the drugs driving the economy, right? the Phonetians what do you think they're trading, right?  they're trading that purple.  why is every culture called “the purple”, well they're the ones that are involved in the spread of that drug. which now they're saying “oh it's probably DMT”.  that's another one, right? the “burning purple” you've heard about that one….?   no no tell me so it's a mollusk, it's a little shelled guy on the bottom of the sea, and they're harvesting it in the Aegean.  I'm familiar with Tyrion purple is this the same substance? yeah it's the same creature, and they talk about this little slug in Diocoredes, and there's a couple of families they refer to.  couple of different Greek names.  but the Porphura is the one that they're using to produce this little dye that apparently it's quite hard to process and you have to be a specialist, right?  and there's an economy behind it, it's so hard to process that it's extremely expensive.  but that means you know you can get a lot for the work that you put into it.  so that's what they do, and this thing is spreading all over, right?  The Phoenician Traders, they're traders in the purple, right? even the name Punic, even the name Pelasgian, they all mean purple, why?  because that's driving the Bronze Age economy, when these cultures are active.  so did that have DMT in it?  I don't know last thing I saw somebody was looking for the DMT in the purple.  yeah, if it is just one component of the entire Theriac, the entire Beast that holds up the cup of Lady Babylon?   then you know somebody's gonna have to design that that AI to figure this out,  because like you say we're never going to be able to to bring back this mystery. you know if we just “did it” Hamilton!  if we just took that seven-year-old and we subjected her to the same chemicals that they did in Antiquity to produce that Divine being, right, that Divine Medusa, if we could do that we could have those prophecies back, we'd be able.  let me ask you this Hamilton, you've given me a ton of your time and I really appreciate it, but I want to know because I see the value of where you are and what you've done.  I want to know, is there anything to the whole idea that these drugs are there to bring out the understanding of the future.  what do you do with that, as a chemist, as a somebody who has this anthropology, that you've been working on.  what do you do with the Oracle? mmm. Yeah I mean I don't believe that there is evidence that anything pharmacological or otherwise is capable of allowing people to reliably predict the future. but I think that we have an amazing ability to make accurate predictions and inferences based on our intuition and knowledge of the world.  so when you look at somebody who is for example a professional psychic or a professional Palm Reader they wouldn't be in business if they weren't able to make informed assessments about people that rung true and a lot of that comes from our ability to make these sorts of predictions about what will happen to people based on what we know.  and I think that psychedelics although I don't believe that they could allow anyone to truly predict the future in the way that you could predict the lottery the next day or something like that.  I think what they can do is provide an ability to have insight and self-reflection and maybe an increased appreciation and shifted perspective on the world that might allow people to better interpret their surroundings and make accurate predictions based on that Insight. so not a foretelling of the future in a supernatural sense, but in a sense that could exist in a materialist framework through a increased appreciation of the world and a sort of careful consideration of trends that surround us.  I heard it. brilliant answer. brilliant answer. what if the type of future telling that they're doing is not what you just describe, though.  for example, Medea does this from the island of Thera, and she says in 17 Generations the descendant of this guy will end up founding a colony in North Africa.  and so 17 Generations later Pindar is reporting it, 17 Generations later, however many it is, 19, he ends up there at the Oracle, and the Oracle says “look, there is an oracle here for you from the past, and it tells you to go found a colony in North Africa” so the guy does.  do you see how there's kind of an organized governmental Oracle going on where they aren't telling you the future like a palm reader, right?  they're telling you what is going to happen through the mystery.   does that make sense? well in that case then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.  it's almost like watching it is almost like watching nation building, right?  we're going to plant certain things but we're not going to do it now.  we're going to do it in a certain number of generations.  it always shocked me that this is….  

• Egeria was a Roman nymph and prophetess associated with sacred springs and prophecy. She was often connected to King Numa Pompilius, the second king of Rome, as his advisor in religious and legal matters.
• Vegoia was an Etruscan prophetess or seer, known in Etruscan lore. She is associated with sacred texts and guidance, particularly with religious laws and rituals.
• Vaticanus was a Roman deity associated with infancy and speech, particularly the first cry of a baby. The Vatican Hill (Mons Vaticanus) derives its name from this ancient deity. It was later significant in Etruscan and Roman prophecy practices.

you know, there was a Roman prophetess named Egeria also she was an Etruscan named Vegoia who practiced on the Vatican Hill right?   that's where she does her prophecy.  where they worship the god Vaticanus.   Vegoia’s prophecies were so dangerous that they had to, when they were rediscovered in a later generation, they said this will cause an uprising, and we have to get rid of these. so they did.  that kind of oracular Empire building was a product of the Bronze Age, and its use of psychotropic drugs.  I'm just wondering, if we can revive those psychotropic drugs, can we drag that oracular capacity to create the future, can we bring that back.  I'm sure For Better or Worse that that could be the case yeah and this is something that you see today all the time you know you I'm sure both of us get a lot of emails from weirdos who are high and having some kind of a episode and there have been several times where somebody contacts me and they say I took mushrooms and I realize that my girlfriend is pregnant with the second coming of Christ and really the defining difference here is not whether or not people are having these sorts of predictions. it's really the social status of the person who is having the prediction. so if a guy who's working at a golf course in Florida predicts that his pregnant girlfriend is going to give birth to the second coming of Christ. no one cares and that will be dismissed as psychosis. but if these same sorts of experiences are integrated into Elite levels of society then the interpretation of these predictions can be very different.  so so maybe there's a little resistance to you know Eleusis for example, I know people have been talking for a while about, how do you bring back Eleusis, in that experience.  if you did, you would affect the International Community, because you can use those powers of the mystery to direct Society into a single Tower, right?  a single group that talks to itself, and were they doing this in Antiquity?  yes!  and they were doing it between cultures that couldn't understand what was going on, right?  so it makes me wonder at what level can you give your populations Health through a practice that we would say, now, is you just can't do it, it's illegal to do things like that.  yeah it just really depends and I think that as more and more people use psychoactive drugs it's going to be interesting to see what sorts of cultural changes take place. I think that it's going to inevitably result in a shift toward new religious practices of one kind or another we've already seen this with underground Ahuyasca communities which have become increasingly prominent in the United States. so what happens when mushrooms are legalized, what happens when people are receiving a pharmaceutical psilocybin treatment for depression, and not only is their depression treated but they have a religious experience and want to dedicate their lives to pursuing the sorts of epiphanies that they had in the context of a pharmaceutical treatment inevitably all of these things will have an effect on our culture yeah it's real power, I mean if there's one thing I noticed from your work and you going to these communities, you're digging into roots of people and civilizations that we've covered up and we don't want to be able to intrude into, and you do that and I have tremendous respect.  I want to thank you for talking with me today.  thank you.  I would ask you is there anything is there anything that you want to ask me that I can give you access to, from these medical sources? if there's anything that you need, this knowledge has to get out there.  it's a hidden ignored, it's not hidden because it's weird or special, it's hidden because it's just ignored.  is there a way, let me just ask you that, is there a way Hamilton to bring back this knowledge?  yes yeah send me the translation send me your best summary of the most important recipes in their preparation and I will attach it to this podcast so that people can read it I think that's the best thing and then you know you mentioned AI, a couple of times I'm excited for AI to help with the translation of these texts that have yet to be translated I mean I don't know if you've been involved with the herculanum papyri but is there any kind of medical text that has been discovered there. you know what's funny is they found “the purple” right off, that was the first word they found, is the porphura, right? and because they suspect - this is a Julian Library belonging to that family - it's definitely, I can just tell you, not what they've discovered yet, but what their language program that it's able to read these texts, and it doesn't translate them, right?  that's now up to the translators, boy steal me a copy of those, and I'll get going for you. but I can tell you this, Hamilton what they will find, I will tell you the future.  they will find in there, pharmacological treatises that are used in the performance of cult, it's all over the Imperial family, and you'll begin to see, kind of the power that is “the sacred name of Rome that none of us can say”, right?  that's in that Julian Library, I know it is, because they found it with Nero, right?  so that's what I'm looking forward to and they're supposed to be done with that thing 90% by the end of March, so if they open up those texts to the general population, oh my gawd, I'm telling you. oh, and there will also be in their lost Works. people don't realize what it is to find 800 Scrolls, right? this is a find like none else in Classics.  this will change as one philologist said, this will change the way that we look at the ancient world.   it's a huge Discovery, and am I looking for those pharmacological treatises to come out?  definitely. definitely.  the one they released was just an ethical treatise, “oh..!!! it's okay.” right?  we got 800 that we're working on and I can guarantee you Hamilton we're gonna have medical pharmacological religious texts.  I'm excited for it.  I'm excited for it.  and when they come about I really hope we can speak again about this because I find all the work that you do totally fascinating and it was amazing talking to you thank you so much. oh maybe one one final thing do you have any thoughts on the immortality key and Brian Muraresku, is that a work that you have any opinions on?  yeah yeah Brian was sent to me by Carl Ruck and Brian I had couple of interviews with him, just on the phone, but we covered a big swath of material from the medical side.  and before that thing came out he wrote to me and he said “are you sure that we can say X Y and Z about Galen etc etc”.  yep, yep, I said “don't worry all the sources are there” and then it came out and you know I think it is an an interesting Vindication of work of people like Carl Ruck.  I think it really does vindicate his work in this area, you know, just pushing into this area.  just vindicates / justifies the existence of the value of studying this material.  but I think the book fell short, and I think it needs, I tried to tell Brian, I said hey I would love if … he said “would you mind, I'm gonna mention you on Rogan, do you mind” I said that's fine but I will only if you can mention the use of the Venoms in the religious rituals that involve people like Jesus Christ, right?  if you can bring that out, because that's the real big find, right?  we can now read this Bible from its original perspective.  and when you take the drugs out of it, it loses its meaning. there's no reason that Jesus should be there with 12 young boys unless he is performing the mystery.  we have a record in the New Testament that we have not read.  and I think you know one of the things that people are asking me over and over again, it's become an interest.  and I didn't think this would, but people are now looking at the Old Testament that we call it, which was written not back you know in the Bronze Age, It Was Written in the 3 century.  and that old testament's original language is in Greek.  the Greek achieved a higher level of technical expertise.  and so the myth of the translation of the original Hebrew, that's non-existent, there's no evidence for that, and people in Antiquity are saying this can't be because the Greek is using of the Septuagint is using colloquial Greek, right?  and that's not what you get in Translation.  so the Greeks and Romans didn't buy the story that that Old Testament was written at some time in the A Thousand Years earlier.  it was a modern creation. and for some reason people are really interested in that now.  and look, Hamilton this is just a stylistic analysis. that's all you have to do, is read the Septuagint and analyze it for its style and you can date that thing linguistically.  These texts that we’re using that we call the Old Testament, these are the texts that support the very mysteries that are happening.   Remember the tent that Moses makes where you can talk to God and you have to raise the serpent in order to get there?  they're using all the same technical terms, to show that they're…  right, look they build this thing called a Telesterion, that's the same thing the Greeks do, right?  it's the same rite.  and so all of a sudden people say, “oh well no wonder there's no mention”, there's no Hebrew from the time, contemporary, the Hebrew doesn't exist back in the Bronze Age, there's no evidence for it whatsoever.  so is that why all the synagogues have Greek in them? there is an authenticity to the text, they're like Amber that preserves the DNA, these texts and we have to appreciate those is there an AI that's going to help me translate?  that's not what we need, that's not the mystery. the mystery is “what are the things that we have ignored, what are the technologies that we have ignored, and what have we lost” and that's what makes me sad is I just want to call the Cancer Institute and say “Hey you know, they claim to have cancer treatments in the ancient world”, right? okay!  you know where can we make this stuff modern.  that's really my desire is to bring these texts forward, and you know that's all I do Hamilton, is text.  all the time. everything that I've talked to you about, I can bring you a text, and I can show it to you, and people always, they listen to me, and they say “what you're saying is fantastic and I can't believe it” and they inevitably come back to me with the sources and say “oh look it's actually here” and yeah, that's the Wonder of it we need.  our society needs to recalculate its classical Origins and say “hey, we need to go back to these Beginnings, these things that gave us” by the way the Cults that are working, they're producing things like democracy, you know these purgations these Dionysiac festivals?  they're resulting in democracy!  so you know I don't know, I feel like maybe we should go back in that direction.  yes, okay two more quick questions because I think you're the person to ask about this do you have any thoughts on the etymology of ammonia and the Temple of Jupiter Ammon and what that means?  yeah, you see the sal ammonium all the time right and that sal is just like a salt, it's just their word for salt, and Galen for example talks about the salts of the Viper - which by the way you're not supposed to Huff because they'll kill you unless you've had the Theriac.   yeah it's used in Libya, and it's always associated with that Temple.  not only with the healing, but with that Temple, yeah it's popular, and you see it all over and it's used, and they call it ammoniacum and I checked it once. you could find the chemistry it's just basic, I forget what it is, sodium something or other ammonium chloride yeah that's used all over.  there you go, ammonium chloride. there you go.  and for people that want to learn more about your work and there's going to be a lot of people listening to this who are going to be very interested. where can they find your work where I'll provide a link to The Chemical Muse are there other things that you'd like to draw attention to for any listeners?  yeah I've been working a series on YouTube called Lady Babylon and 666 and all I do is, every episode I just bring up these ancient texts so that people don't have to believe me when I say marvelous things like “Jesus was arrested with a naked boy”.  we actually go back and look at the text and you know recently we were looking at some of the ones that have to do with extraction of baby juices for the use in sacred formulae.  it's that kind of stuff that all I do is I call up these texts and I force you to look at that ghost and to hear that voice of that ghost.  and sometimes it's famous ones, a lot of people don't realize all the drugs that are in the famous works that we have, like Homer, right?  there's a ton of drugs in Homer, and there's beautiful depictions of bronze age women castrating men, drugging them, and turning them into sex toys, right?  I mean just gorgeous stuff like that that people don't appreciate.  you know you can't listen to Homer without being stoned, right?  Helen is the one who brings that drug that we all drink that puts us in that place that the songs of Homer can penetrate.  it's gorgeous!  I love it, they show it in Antiquity, and that's the kind of stuff that I talk about on Lady Babylon and I don't do it for money.  I'm not monetized, I could be monetized, but I'm not becoming monetized because my audience, they just want those sources.  it's like a museum that's what I'm trying to preserve, and that's yeah Lady Babylon 666, you're welcome to go out and get Chemical Muse but it'll cost you a lot because it's out of print, and yeah it's expensive, and I feel bad.  I tell people who ask me about,  I say “just pirate a copy, and then you can go from there”.  Chemical Muse, yeah.  they told me at Brown, they said people won't catch up, it'll take them 10 years, and I think people are just starting to catch up.  so when we find the more and more archaeology, Hamilton you're going to run into this.  soon as we find the archaeology that comes out that shows us these drugs in action which it's already started to do.  don't call me up and be surprised, right?  because that was what Society was doing, and we're just getting good enough to scientifically to be able to pinpoint that stuff.  so yeah, we've got a brilliant future with our history coming up here.  well thank you so much for your time and if you can send me those recipes ill attach them or any other information I'll provide a PDF of your book with your permission and thanks again I hope we can talk again soon because this has been a truly fascinating conversation.  it's an honor and a privilege and I hope that there is in your belly somewhere a fire.  and maybe someday you and I can stand there and look at the Oracle and say wow look what you can actually do, this is gorgeous, I love it, thank you Hamilton for the opportunity, and thank you Sora. thank you, thank you, all right I'll talk to you later and have a good day you too Hamilton good to meet you.